Cool maps

This is all so cool. Like -

What a clever analog computing solution!

I also really like the practical nature of the challenge. Like instead of just challenging how fast you can run on a straight segment of track using specific shoes and a specific track material and a specific outfit for a specific distance, this actually requires nuanced risk assessment, planning, knowing your team's abilities and weaknesses, etc.

And that angles right into

When sporting happens in a platonic environment (straight line, fixed distance, predetermined shoes) I think it ends up favoring people who are so far out on the bell curve as to excel in that very specific environment that you end up perpetuating the myth of the solo exceptional person, but it looks like Rogaining teases out what I think is the truth of the world - that in real, practical situations, a team of varied people will excel over a monoculture team!

I think about this working in a hospital a lot where being neurodivergent means in the swiss cheese model of risk, I'm a pretty important asset! If all of our brains worked exactly the same, we would all share the same blind-spots.

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Yes, yes, but you need to find a way to convert the topology of the map into an adverse stimulus for the slime mold (or string) or else your N miles is going to turn into N miles through brush and up hills! Maybe it needs to be a flexible string where you can stretch out downhill segments to model how going downhill on a road costs fewer ListenMiles™ than going uphill. And obviously paths that intersect with cool slimemolds reward ListenMiles™ so you can do weird speedrunner glitches where you accumulate enough ListenMiles™ to clip yourself out of bounds.

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walking uphill and downhill suck. downhill makes me walk goofy and does ankle hurt, both will be accounted for in the simulation

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I love the stuff with slime mold, biologic computing probably has a lot of untapped potential!

That's pretty much what we do, I don't know if I managed to explain it very well.

Yeah even if it's banned from using any electronic aids in a actual event I've thought about trying to create some kind of program that could produce an optimal path just for the fun of it, but the issue you run into is that a decent amount of the challenge is in how imperfect the map is compared to reality. A map is only a snapshot of time and landscape changes over time, particularly vegetation, and paths if they not maintained, or paths that have been made but not mapped. So it's a bit limiting to consider only the planning part in isolation, but it can still be fun.

Yeah the type of crowd this sport attracts is a pretty interesting mix. People into maths/stem kind of stuff but also spending a few days out in the bush

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a true topographer would declare the map to be a 2d disc and probably do poorly

a graph theorist would probably fare well by making a network of nodes representing the paths between the points on the map, equal to the sum of the point values the node lies between, divided by a factor representing the difficulty of traversing the path between them, which I think would work extremely well, but would look like a messy tangle of nonsense

if the paths don't change much between events (like if it is an annual thing at the same location) it might be possible to look at the paths of winning teams (you know what, consider other events too. more data, better predictions, papa john) and take a predictive/probabilistic approach to find patterns in winning strategies

another terrible method could be taking an L one year to traverse and time all possible combinations of segments and comprehensively search for the most points per time limit.

the best way to win is to declare a different win condition and be the only team playing by those rules, and explain that umm actually I didn't win bc I was doing something way cooler so it doesnt even bother me even a little bit that we did so poorly

so many ways to play. This is exactly the type of thing machine learning excels at. I feel like there's an analogue computing way of doing this that would be super cool and efficient, but I haven't thought of it.

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Very much so!
It’s so interesting to experience team dynamics play out over all the various problems and challenges that get thrown up. Different people can come up with very different plans, and then you can compare them. It’s important that everyone in the team navigates at all times, hopefully the majority of you will arrive at the right idea of where to go, which is a lot more foolproof than going off a single idea (swiss cheese, as you said)

Different people bring different strengths and weaknesses which can even change over the course of an event. Some might be better at leading the navigation, some better at making sure you stick on the correct bearing, some better at noticing when landmarks aren’t lining up the way they should and you’re in a slightly different spot than you thought.

Team moral is really important, its gonna ebb and flow over the long event, and its really valuable to have someone good at keeping everyone in good spirits, especially when things start getting rough.

Speaking of which, holy heck the team dynamics when you get proper lost. It is so easy to fall into a blame game, but that’s gonna do nothing to help now, and it’s so important you have people who can stamp that out, make sure people don’t fight. In this moment and even much later on too. Even if with hindsight it’s clear we’re in a big mess cus of a decision one or two people made, you just have to let it go and focus on working together to getting out of it, and that’s hard! And when you are lost is when you are most likely to get everyone thinking you should go in different directions.

Regaining your bearings in yet another whole other navigational skill some will be better at than others too. It can be rough to go through but if you make it out the other side you’ll feel like a tighter unit for making it through that crisis together and honestly that’s a really good feeling!

There’s probably more stuff not coming to mind but you get there idea, all sorts of varied skills are required and its important to recognize who’s good at what and listen to them when the time comes. And just raw teamwork, can’t let your ego or personal feelings get in the way of the greater good!

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This is probs the kinda thing I'd do, or somehow add to whatever I'd use to represent the map a distance multiplier to account for how much more difficult it is to traverse that terrain (if its $2\times$ more difficult to cross this terrain, then treat it as twice the distance) then calculate the path of shortest distance between each control and its nearest neighbors using this, then that list of distances should hopefully simplify the problem enough to throw into some kind of linear programming optimization model solving for maximum points constrained by a max distance.

They do change the locations up as much as possible, and completely shift around where the controls are set up exactly so you can't take any kind of prior knowledge in to help.

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As a fellow computer engineer, I would just like to point out how much I love that every discussion, no matter the subject, can and will at some point become a graph theory discussion.

It's just that everything can be abstracted into a graph system. It's cool.

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Oh hey, another maphead found in the wild. I did orienteering for about 5 years and exactly one rogain with my dad (which happened after i quit exercise so i was not fit to jog for the full 6 hours).

This was a half-family-involved thing, our flat in Russia still has folders full of maps, probably.

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Not exactly a map but here are room layout schemes i made for yume nikki and yume 2kki. Second one probably has like 10% or less of yume 2kki, that game is fucking huge.

Don’t unroll if you don’t want spoilers, obviously.


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God I saw a graph once of every world in that game connected and it truly is insane how big it is.

How do you get into sports like these? I've thought about getting into Radiosport, and one of them is Amateur Radio Direction Finding which always seemed real interesting to me.

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I’ve sunk a good amount of time into Yume Nikki. I really enjoy it, I haven’t really gotten to the end or seen the end. Yumenikki -Dream Diary- is quite a bit smaller but still a fun journey through some of the worlds. I haven’t touched Yume 2ikki but I know that game is huuuuggggge!

I’ve been meaning to making a post about a few games in games that aren’t really games and Yume Nikki is one of the games that I feel like fit into that category of games.

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Rogaining is niche, but still popular enough in Aus that each state has some kind of organisation that puts together and runs a handful of events each year with the help of plenty of volunteers. You can learn about how to play and sign up for events on their websites.
I’m not sure of it’s size in other countries, it was invented here so I wouldn’t be surprised if its even more niche everywhere else, but there is a genuine Rogaining world championship, so it must be decently spread out in at least some other places.

Speaking more generally of how to get into niche sports, I was fortunate enough to have a friends dad who’s done it and other wacky adventure sports his whole life, so he was able to tell us about it and give us a bunch of tips and tricks.
But even if you don’t personally know someone, the nice thing about niche interests is that people who partake are usually pretty happy and excited to share them. So if you can find someone who is already into it either irl or online somewhere they will probably be estatic to tell you everything you need to know about it, particularly if you say you want to get into it yourself.

Of course people are all different so this experience is not guaranteed, but I can at least say in my experience the people in the niche stuff and stuff where competition is less important than the fun of it are a lot more likely to be friendly than more mainstream and competitive sports.

Like oof as much as I love cycling damn there are so many asshole cyclist about, I eventually just gave up on finding people to ride with lol

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One of the perks of working in surveying is occasionally stumbling across or even using cool old maps. Earlier this week I found the coolest type I’ve come across yet, Railway Books.

These are massive table sized books that contain the detailed survey of an entire planned railway route, used back when everything was analogue. An INSANE amount of survey work must have taken place to make these, and then the amount of work to collate it all neatly together makes my head spin. It looks so cool.

Here is one page of one


That little note left on the page in this scan is A4, which gives you a sense of the scale of it.

I don’t know how well you can zoom on that so here are some close ups

You can see the planned bearings of straights, radius of curves, distance makers, how its gonna wind around the terrain.
The elevation profile down the bottom shows the different planned gradients of the track, how that matches up with the terrain, how they are gonna have to cut and fill the terrain to maintain a smooth constant gradient, where and what type of drains they are gonna build where they fill so water can still drain through, I’ll have to grab another page that shows bridges too.


I love all the hand written annotations too

You can see planned level crossings and where roads are to be diverted to make way for the railway, you can also see some funny old units like miles, cus we still used imperial back then and CHS which stands for chains.

side track about chains

which is a literal metal chain of a set length they used to use in surveying. A chain is handy cus it perfectly follows the ground instead of being a measurement in the air. I forget what their length is but a lot of our built world is the size it is cus it was measured in whole chains. eg street corridors are usually 1 chain wide, housing blocks are usually 2 chains deep and x chains long.

In the elevation profile you can see the marking of an old catastrophic flood level noted, where the track will be raised by banking or by bridge.

This rail line is now a rail trail, and I’ve ridden across this bridge in it’s current form many times and defs taken photos of it, but vexingly I cannot find any of the photos for the life of me. I wanted to do a cool thing of the concept of this bridge which started as lines in a book here drawn in the 1880s is now this physical bridge in 2024. I’ll settle for using someone elses pic.

Side track a different cool bridge over the same creek a different rail line still uses today

Sadly we only have access to scans of the books, I’d love to see a proper one. I bet they look even more impressive in person.

Cool railway map! If you liked it let me know what you liked about it. Happy to try and explain any other details I can too if you have questions. ^v^

side track slow math loves cut and fill problems

I particularly like the cutting and filling stuff cus that’s such a fun optimisation problem of trying to equalise the amount you cut into the ground and fill up embankments and the distance between them, so you don’t have to dispose of or bring in as much dirt or move it as far between cut and fill sites, while also taking into account constraints of what the route has to be (gradient vehicles can travel up, curves they can take, directness vs cost saving, etc)

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Just going to do a big dump of a couple of maps I’ve made over the past couple years

Here’s a map I made back in 2021 for a ttrpg campaign I was running: inspirations for the campaign were the apocalypse of Frost Punk, the magic of Archive 81 (the podcast not the Netflix show) and Zero Hours and KOllOK for the deities.

The next couple will be for my scifi setting all the stories are told in the 27th century where humanity has colonized the entirety of the Solar System (these were all made in 2023, with some started in late 2022).
These first two are outdated at this point, I have some issue with the information being displayed but I’m mostly happy with the visual style:


The following is unfinished but is a WIP political map of the Earth in this setting

Another political map of a terraformed Titan (Saturn’s largest moon) which is one of the only worlds in the setting that has been properly terraformed because it’s one of the only one where it’s feasible with the technology of the setting, followed by it’s largest city, Nabapaar which grew to such a large size by being on the equator and the coast having a seaport, and a spaceport (space elevators are easiest to place on equators)


Okay that’s it for that section

Now here’s the American Empire Internet for a setting I made up in a 2 hour world building challenge (the map was not made in the 2 hours, that was just the initial setting up the world) A setting where the space race happened in the 1860s and 1870s between America/France vs Great Britain. This was made in 2023

Finally I have my project I’m currently working on, this map I didn’t actually draw it’s just trying to place fictional locations on the US map as best I can. I have consumed the media of all these locations except 2.5 I think. started in 2023, most recent update was earlier today:

That’s all I have for today, I like maps believe it or not, if you have any questions feel free to lmk

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these are so cool!!! maps are so neat!

this one has spent many hours browsing google maps. while not interesting for being a bit… unusual? but it does have a lot of fascinating things on it. Or rather, the world does in general, and that is a very accessible way to find it.

it had no idea that Russia, North Korea, and China all meet at a single point, or at least close enough to that to be a single point

it also browsed through street view in the chernobyl exclusion zone enough times that it knows where pripyat/chernobyl are from orbit

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I love cartography! I personally draw a lot of fantasy maps and fantasy cartography. For TTRPG and worlbuilding purposes.

My favorite map that I love to show people is this ottoman map of australia from 1803


I dont have the background behind it, but seeing how accurate it is, while being from the early 1800s is just so interesting, and it really shows how much effort went into the maps!

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i have lots of screenshots from google maps street view i would love to share, not sure if it requires a whole thread though? but yeah going through google maps and randomstreetview for hours is so fun

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if ever possible, I recommend google earth vr

its free and amazing to see everything sprawl out like an endless miniature model set

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