TTRPG ramblings

General
21

I think this is going to depend on your RPG. In something like Pathfinder, the player characters have daily resource allocations as part of the mechanics and some of them have huge amounts of HP. I think those kinds of characters expect or even need lethality to be a creeping thing ef dwindling resources.

But games like World of Darkness and GURPS have mechanics that basically say "If a character has begun to lose a fight, that's them losing the fight" and they commit to the bit. Most veterans of Vampire the Masquerade chronicles know that getting the drop on the enemy is a vital part of not being done hideous amounts of damage before getting a turn.

3 Likes
22

I mean this very genuinely, but have you looked into alternative storytelling/roleplaying mediums? TTRPGs are, by definitely bound by mechanics. From reading what you've said here, it sounds like perhaps you'd find it more fulfilling to write a book, or maybe just free roleplay on the internet, rather than play a tabletop? What about collaborative TTRPGs has you playing them rather than solo RPGs or pursuing creative writing endeavours?

3 Likes
23

I see where you are coming from, but one of the first rules thats told to you when learning to DM is "You are the end all be all authority, no rule or mechanic is unchangeable. Do what you want in the spirit of fun."

That is the really magic of a TTRPG, with traditional video games and story books you are bound by a script or engine. When I play a TTRPG especially with people that have a similar viewpoint of the media, it is a near enlightening experience.

My dramatics with the intial rambling may have you believe I struggle with group play or find it unsuitable. That is not the case, I merely wish to push the level of play as far as it can go.

I do write stories and do alternative role play though.

4 Likes
24

hoo boy
def. strong disagree with a lot that has been said here ^^v especially about combat

but i'm curious to know what y'all think about blades in the dark

3 Likes
25

Looks pretty cool, could definitely sell my group on playing it. I really like the stress mechanic and progress clocks. Not something you see everyday and adds a nice bit of RP and cushioning in one go.

1 Like
26

if your willing, could you go more into your dissagreements? i allways like to hear different ways to run games.
~mox

2 Likes
27

sure, i ended up writing a ton of things, but cut most of it down to be as concise as i could (i'm really bad at it), we should talk in a chat or VC about it one of these days ^^

basically, to me, player character death is something you need to yield very carefully in most games because it inspires deep frustration, but especially in ttrpgs there's a bunch more reasons to avoid it the majority of time

imho combat should not in general pose the risk of death to the players, it only really works as a general omnipresent threat in specific game styles and settings, and otherwise can work in specific situations where you want to raise the stakes dramatically (like BBEG reveals and the more important boss battles), but even then you can achieve the same effect with better tools

this comes from some very basic game design principles, namely the golden rule of working from feelings first (both that you want to impress and want to avoid impressing), and build experiences for it, not the other way around. and frustration is a feeling you generally want to yield carefully and avoid impressing most of the time

then the other issue is that it really goes against the strengths of most ttrpgs we're used to, and in particular D&D 5e is not tuned for it

it's not impossible, you can do it, it can work, but it will be wonky, and more often than not will get stale pretty quick. to me if you take that as a basic rule of running games, you'll miss out on most styles of play and most enjoyable experiences

to give one more practical example, you can't have a gung-ho adventure where players are free to bullshit their way into and out of situations well above their heads if you intend to punish players for not being diligent and prepared. going into things unprepared and without diligence is the fun in these games

i mentioned blades in the dark because i believe the way it handles heavy omnipresent risk is so good it's a great case study - they even found ways to make the style i just described compatible with having heavy risk all the time, but it takes a lot of game-mechanical ingenuity and design focus to achieve it. you should read it!

4 Likes
28

You know what, this is a very well thought out and concise rebuttal. It is true, my way of doing things does carry restrictions, even with alternative means. I also don't really like D&D 5e for the exact reason you stated. But the viewpoint you provided has made me question my initial taste for for these things going forward. Thanks for mentioning Blades In The Dark btw.

3 Likes
29

Where do you go to find good freeform RP stuff online these days? I would love to get involved in that stuff, especially anything with a bend for chaos magick as a setting element (niche ask, I know).

I have tried writing projects on my own, but whenever I try to talk to people about them I always feel incredibly awkward. Having a troupe of cowriters seems really fun.

1 Like
30

I always enjoyed the way Pathfinder 2e describes combat as well.

It basically breaks things down into

-battles which are intentionally a cakewalk, either to empower the players, get them warmed up, or to use as a palate cleanser.
-your standard battle. They pose little risk on their own, but make your player spend some of their daily allotment of abilities and what not, whittling them down.
-mini boss level encounters. Situations that might leave your players on the brink of death, but are still meant to not result in a casualty.
-boss level encounters. A well prepared party can handle these with the use of their skills, knowledge, and foresight - but an unprepared party would struggle a lot or might be at risk of player death.
-campaign ending battles - something that you throw at your players at or near the end of a campaign. Player death is likely, but can be part of the dramatic flair of a campaign is appropriate.

Atleast, that’s kinda how I remember things being. I feel like the idea of palate cleanser and cakewalk combats is something that folks don’t think about sometimes. Like, it’s alright to allow your players some time to act out a power fantasy, and to feel strong.

I think that there’s all sorts of interesting ways to do combat - but I am also intrigued to learn more about the things you had mentioned.

3 Likes
31

i think this is the part where pathfinder 2e loses me, though it's also just a core D&D thing it seems. it's taken a few campaigns to properly get a grasp of what bothered me about classes, but more than anything, it's the very scarce allotment of daily abilities and magic to anything that isn't a class about hitting things with stick. maybe that's just a mismatch with the system and me, but i'm really curious how others feel about action economy for melee vs magic, and daily abilities in general.

i really enjoy lancer's use of Core Bonuses because of this; things that are only limited to a scene rather than the wildly varying day-based system a lot of D&D abilities follow. i get that homebrew could alleviate some of this, but i haven't even had the drive to try and tackle the spells known/spells per day dilemma ever and it's just a mess. [1]

  1. longer rant: it feels like the system tries to play into both the aspects of [strong magic that can only be used rarely] and [weaker magic so mages aren't oneshotting anything until 5th-level spells at least]. which sucks. there's so much utility in the game that is super situational, and almost no classes which can make use of it without locking themselves into it or giving up some usefulness in combat. so much of D&D spellcasting also being 1 standard action is also? weird? idk there's way too much that i dislike and configuring them into a sheet also sucks so i generally just avoid depth in spellcasting when i do try and use it in pathfinder. another reason for me to get around to trying other systems!!! ↩︎

2 Likes
32

It seems like to some extent the issue does in fact lie with how you feel about these systems.

I also encourage you to explore totally different things though!
For example, I quite enjoy monster of the week, and it doesn’t have anything like dnd or pathfinder combat and skill components.

Also it’s much less focused on combat and more on solving the mystery of a, well, a monster of the week!

2 Likes
33

I mutch prefer haveing just a coupple magic abilities per day so i have to stratergise and use them sensibly

In dnd as a full caster it feels like ill never run out of spellslots bc it would take 4-5 encounters between a long rest to come close to that, i personaly prefer magic feeling dificult tireing or in some way limited

I. Love suvival in real life and my study of nature and all kind of thing i dont want magic to make things trivial

I still find both fun tho

3 Likes
34

The gamization of story telling has really done interesting things to the way magic powers are imagined. For example, I think this

is the kind of desire that would have given rise to daydreams or fantasies of magical guns or charms that allow someone who likes to examine animals to do so without having to fear or harm them. It's a minor miracle; movies actually tend to treat dart guns like this but dossing tranquilizers by eyeball isn't a sure science or safe to make too fast acting.

I think it is bad. I Fate Core was the game to really get it 100% right that these systems of resources can and should all be reduced down to plot point juice and passed between characters to produce narrative events. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't like this kind of abstraction when it isn't dressed up in pseudo-mysticism.

I actually like the Spheres of Power/Might/Guile system since it provides a lot of good tools for making the mechanics and the narrative of a character have some correlation with each other. It has weirdness and problems, like everyone has an allocation of daily points to spend now, I think, but it is really straight forward to see what the heck kind of character it supports making.

1 Like
35

I think that day, session, and scene-based cooldowns all have their places. I've really enjoyed some games that foucus of the more recourse management side of ttrpgs and the spell slots add to the resources you need to manage. I do prefer when the choices relating to spells are more complex, which makes me prefer the prepared spellcasting from pathfinder over dnd 5e's spellcasting. I guess I'm interested in the idea of spells (specifically with the semi-osr inspired dnd stuff I'm running right now) being powerful in effect but a lil inflexible, limited in use, and a lil unpredictable/clunky. when I'm using spell slots or simmilar i want to create a feeling of wizards who's magic is less like a superpower or avatar style bending, but of a mortal who just barely comprehends the power that they wield. that's just the aesthetic of my worldbuilding tho, so other people's milage may vary. on the split between melee v.s magic, i like it. I'm currently fascinated with the concept that playing a different class can lead to a drastically different experience, and a consequence of that is that different classes will inevitably attract different people.
~mox

3 Likes
36

Ecelent explaination tou captured what i was trying to convey far better than i could

1 Like